The Millionaire Mindset You Need (Lessons from our Boston Trip)

A three-year waitlist for a watch you still can’t buy. A $1.2M piece you might be afraid to wear on the street. And the blunt truth about where money compounds versus where it just looks good. We took Boston by storm—recording at a glass-front studio in the TD Garden hub, drifting down Newbury Street’s luxury row, and stress-testing the logic behind status buys and durable assets.

If you want a playbook that values both joy and prudence, this one’s for you. We map the line between smart splurges and compounding assets, share the systems that make portfolios durable, and call out the traps that drain profit.

Transcript

Boston Setup And Watch Row

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Welcome to the Everyday Millionaire Show with Ryan Greenberg and Nick Calvis. Alright guys, welcome back to another episode of the Everyday Millionaire Show. We are here in Boston right now, just the boys. Boston. Boston. I can't do the accent, so I don't even want to. We came up to do a couple of uh episodes with some influencers up here, and now we are literally set up in the mezzanine of our hotel to do a little internal pod. Desert. Yeah. What did we do today? Besides the pods. We went shopping. Yeah, we did. Nick is about to buy an AP, a nice little watch.

SPEAKER_01 0:39

I don't know, man. I mean, I've never been a fan of wearing jewelry. I put the watch on, it was cool and everything. But I just don't know. Maybe it just wasn't the right one. Maybe that one was what what was that? That was a 42 or 40. Yeah. It just felt a little big. I mean, that was the one of the bigger ones you did mention. Um, when that one came out, it was like the larger, and people called it like the giant or whatever they call it.

SPEAKER_03 0:59

What was that street that we were on here in the street? Newberry Street. Newberry Street. There was like Rolex, AP, Paddock, uh Richard Millie, Richard Mill, there was uh Brightling, like every fucking watch brand was there.

SPEAKER_02 1:12

Big watch city, apparently.

SPEAKER_03 1:13

It was sick. And what's really kind of cool is like they're paying, if you think about it, those people are paying, like, they wouldn't sell us a watch. They wouldn't even sell you what one. Yeah, and now you want to get a Rolex and you're part of the club. Rolex, and I flashed my fucking Rolex at them, and they still said no. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:29

But like Well, that's just because they were at capacity. They were pretty packed in there. It's most common watch, I guess, would be a Rolex, so there was a lot of people in there. But when you went to the AP store, they told you that it would take three up to three years to get a watch, and that makes you want to get a watch, and that was a huge sales tactic that he pulled on you, because right now you're itching for one.

SPEAKER_03 1:48

But he's only selling like three watches a year, he said. Or I guess he said three of the Royal Oaks per year. And they're paying like for that storefront for him and the other guy and the lady to be there working, and they're not like it's like a store that you can go into and you can look, but you can't buy. Yeah, it's a wild concept.

SPEAKER_02 2:07

Yeah, no, for sure. I mean, the sales taxes were great, let's be real. Um, the no pressure, hey, everything in here is exhibit, yeah.

Scarcity Sales And Swiss Craft

SPEAKER_03 2:16

You I can't sell you it. Yeah, yeah. That's the makes me want to buy it so bad. Yeah, I just that's all I want to do now.

SPEAKER_01 2:21

That's the perfect time for window shopping. You can just walk in and be like, well, there's nothing to buy anyway.

SPEAKER_02 2:24

I'm gonna start doing that with real estate clients. I'm just like, let's go look at this house, but I'm not gonna sell it to you actually. You can't afford it.

SPEAKER_01 2:30

You can't make you want it more, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:33

But the the world, the world of like watches in general, after hearing that guy talking about like the way that they make the ceramic watch and all that stuff, they have like hands scratch it, and like that is pretty fucking crazy.

SPEAKER_01 2:45

Yeah, it's pretty wild.

SPEAKER_03 2:46

And how all of them they all come from Switzerland.

SPEAKER_02 2:48

I don't know why Switzerland's so good at making watches, but that's like I don't know either, but I I know the with the um Rolex? Yeah, Rolexes, they uh this the just the quality of the watch itself is just incredible. Yeah, um, you know, other than just the brand, the actual watch is a really good watch. Are you sponsored by EP now?

SPEAKER_01 3:12

But anyway, so when we sponsor that he when we went in there, and also a cool thing was when he said that there was someone who lost like there's a new program where if you lose it within two years or or it gets damaged, that like they're replacing. I'm like, that's crazy.

SPEAKER_03 3:24

It's crazy because why wouldn't somebody just say it got stolen and then get a second one? Yeah, but then you can never get the stolen one serviced ever. Because they have a st it would have a serial number, obviously, on it. But yeah, that is a that is a wild. I mean, I feel like having um having seen all of those brands, like the AP store was deaf well, Richard Mill was obviously the most exclusive.

SPEAKER_01 3:46

Yes, I want that one. That's that one that was. There were three watches.

SPEAKER_03 3:50

There was a whole store, and there were three watches in there, and none of them were for sale. Yeah. And the one was 1.2 mil, the other one was what, 270? 270, yeah. Wait, was there only two watches?

SPEAKER_01 4:00

No, there was one when we first walked in on the front. I don't know. I didn't like that design of that one, but no, but Richard Mills, that's wild.

SPEAKER_03 4:07

Like$1.2 million to wear it on your wrist. I am not a criminal and I would want to rob you.

Status, Safety, And Collector Culture

SPEAKER_01 4:15

And that's the thing, too, right? Like you said in like Europe and stuff, they'll snatch your watch off your wrist. Yeah. I mean, just to have that watch and then feel uncomfortable walking around with it, just for that reason, it's kind of like I guess it's like a collector piece that you just want to get away.

SPEAKER_02 4:28

But I mean, okay, so for the people that are listening though, and they're like, all right, you guys are talking about watches, but there is an investment piece to it. And this is how you kind of sold your wife, and you know, were pitching it to me as like, hey, look, you know, I can buy this, but I am gonna get a return. And and that's something that I've always found very valuable, like our bikes, right? Like, we bought really expensive bikes, but I know not that I'm gonna get the full value back, but I'm gonna get something back.

SPEAKER_03 4:53

There's there's an there's an asset to it. Because you were we were talking about the argument between like luxury clothing and something like a watch. Where clothing, like, I don't want to wear your fucking shirt after you're done wearing it for a while. I'm not gonna pay good money. You guys want to split a bunch of shirts? They're a size medium, you want to split a split award.

SPEAKER_02 5:12

There is a niche for getting sweaty and clothes and selling it. I'm just saying. Yeah, I don't think they want mine though. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:23

But maybe, maybe Ben.

SPEAKER_02 5:25

Yeah, but but it's an investment. So I mean, at the end of the day, it's like, you know, you might pay 10k for a watch, but it could even appreciate, and you could sell it for like 12k, 13k.

SPEAKER_03 5:35

Well, the way I look at it, so like this watch when it retailed like originally was sold for 2500 bucks. Yeah like back in the 80s or whatever. Now they're 10,000 minimum. So like that in itself appreciated as an asset, and you got to wear it and like have a nice piece, you know, of jewelry, and it's like a conversation starter. I I look at it as an investment, even if you're not getting your full value back, you're getting it's kind of like like you know, like you're leasing a car, but it's better. You're like, you I could just trade this in and go get another one at any time and get my value back out of it.

SPEAKER_01 6:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:13

So you can either have 10 grand just sitting in your bank account or in stocks, like, or a nice watch that you wear.

SPEAKER_02 6:19

What would you say to the people who say I'd rather spend 25k on a house though?

SPEAKER_03 6:24

That's a better, a way better decision. That's a way better decision. But eventually like I'm gonna go. There's levels to it. There's levels. I also said to Eugene, probably like five years ago when he started buying Rolexes, oh, that's a stupid investment. I if I had that if I had the money you had, I would buy a fucking other house.

SPEAKER_02 6:41

Yeah.

Are Watches Investments Or Just Fun

SPEAKER_03 6:42

And then I did that, and then bought another house. Then that gets boring after a while too. And you have to like you have to diversify.

SPEAKER_02 6:48

You have to just spend money. You have to spend it. One watch it.

SPEAKER_03 6:50

I mean, if you're not gonna spend it, what the fuck are you doing? Yeah, you know, like I feel like the people that just hoard money, like like that's cool, but when you have enough to live and like you know you're set, like you know you're pretty good, like you'd be okay for the rest of your life. Like, why not enjoy it and splurge a little bit?

SPEAKER_02 7:07

Yeah. Well, I I think for me right now, everybody has seasons of their life. Like for me, I'm definitely in the building field. Yeah, you're young. Like, I we're trying to create wealth for our children, whereas like you've you already have a portfolio, like Nick obviously has a hundred houses, like you know, a 10k, 12k, even 25k watch to y'all is nothing. Whereas like that's another wouldn't say nothing. Okay, well, it's it's something whatever. You but it's not a 1.2 mil Richard Mill. Yeah, yeah. But right, but like for me, that's another portfolio. Like 25k could be another addition to my portfolio.

SPEAKER_03 7:42

If you're listening to this and it's between buying a watch or a rental property, buy the fucking house. Yeah, or flip the house, or put it in the stock market, or do anything else. Yeah, it's not I'm not buying these for the I like made that argument, but I'm not buying the watches for the investments. It's just but it is an investment at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_01 8:00

And we're largely talking about it now because we obviously were walking and we saw the watch stores and there was multiple, and we were like, let's go in here, let's go in there.

SPEAKER_03 8:07

And there's like uh there's like a whole world of people that like are like that guy, he just works at that store. He rolled rattled off the watches that he had. In my head, I was like adding it up. It's like a quarter million dollars just like in the things that he just said he had.

SPEAKER_02 8:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:23

And he just works at the watch guy at the watch place. Yeah. And he had Rolex's APs, like he had a bunch of I mean, at least a quarter, I would say at least a quarter million dollars of watches. Um, and there's like watch clubs that you can join that you go to like they like rent out like facilities, like how we do our meetups for investors, they do that for watches too.

SPEAKER_01 8:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:45

So you get around a bunch of people that are able to afford six-figure watches.

SPEAKER_02 8:48

It's a good room to should we uh sit outside the gut the the store and just wait for him to go home.

SPEAKER_01 8:55

Well, no, the remember the I forget the name of the watch store that we went to today. Um, the first one Brightland.

SPEAKER_02 9:00

Brightly.

SPEAKER_01 9:01

Yeah, Brightland, where they're having a a real estate party tomorrow, and they're inviting people who do 200 million plus a year. Like that's a really cool event that they're hosting for them, and it's a good opportunity for them to you know, dude.

Spend, Save, Or Buy The House

SPEAKER_02 9:13

Think about it. You you invite all the top agents in, the agents either want to be flashy or they're buying a gift for their client because they just bought three million, four million dollar house. Like, that's pretty sick. That's like really good marketing.

SPEAKER_03 9:26

And Brightling makes an Iron Man finisher watch. Yeah, so that would be a cool, that would be a cool alternative to the um tattoo. Yeah, true. But I didn't I did not buy that. I just feel like there's not well that also like doesn't have as much of a resale value because like only people that would want that would want it would be people that have done the Iron Man.

SPEAKER_01 9:45

Yeah, well that's something that I would think you wouldn't want to get rid of, you know.

SPEAKER_03 9:48

No, I don't know, but I'm saying if we're art if we were making like the argument that the watch was like a good investment, like that one would not be an investment. That would be just as strictly like a I did this, look at it kind of thing. But Boston's been cool, it's cold as shit here. That's the one thing it's like bone chilling cold. Um, and it gets cold at home. I feel like it's just a different type of cold here.

SPEAKER_01 10:09

It was because yesterday it was rainy, but it was like 55 degrees. Today it was like 30 degrees, but it was sunny, but you really felt the cold. It just felt a little different, like the cold.

SPEAKER_03 10:19

Yeah, it's it's it gets into you like in like in deep. Yeah, like it's harder to like. During that podcast today, I was shivering. I like how to have Ben get my jacket like mid-pot.

SPEAKER_01 10:30

And that was a great setup that they had here. You know, it was the TD Garden. Was that where we were?

SPEAKER_03 10:34

Yeah, that was we can't talk about that. That was cool. So Kevin Cooney was the one that set up the studio. I guess he started out with them as their studio, like that was his studio, not his, but like that's where he recorded his podcast. So he linked us up with them. It was like full professional gear. We had cameras, a guy that the engineer, I guess you'd call him, um, doing the audio and visual stuff. Um that was super cool. And then got to film with Johnny, the the PE guy. Uh, we did some skits with him. That was those are so funny. So those are already some of them are out. I think one of them's out now on our Instagram. Yeah. They'll probably all be out by the time this this thing airs.

SPEAKER_01 11:11

But another cool thing about the setup today where we were, it's you know, the glass in front of us where people would walk by and they'd like to take a glance in, like, oh, who's what's going on in there?

SPEAKER_02 11:19

They were taking pictures of us. Yeah, a couple people did stop and they were like sitting there, and I was like trying not to look, you know, but like people were stopping. I could only imagine if there's like a game or an event and like somebody's like Tom Brady or somebody's like there talking, like you probably get big crowds in front of you.

SPEAKER_03 11:33

Well, Tom Brady owns that place. Yeah, that's why I said that. Yeah, yeah. They said he owned half of it, yeah. I mean, the the whole idea there, that vision of where they put that thing is absolutely genius. Like everybody walking past that the hub, it's called where like the it wasn't just for games, like the TD Garden had like a whole hub of restaurants and little shops and stuff.

SPEAKER_02 11:57

Train stations in there too.

Studio Day At TD Garden

SPEAKER_03 11:59

Yeah, so people like can come in, yeah. You can come in on a train, record a podcast, and get out. You can come in and watch a game. Like that was a pretty that was a pretty legit setup, I would say. Yeah, no, for sure it was. Uh when I looked at their website too, if you look at Big Night Media, it but they have like big night talent, big night this, big night, they have like a whole bunch of different things. They were selling fucking cards, like baseball cards. Memorabilia, yeah. That's a whole bunch of related cards that I haven't gotten into that I don't that I'm not interested in. But like there's a lot of money in cards. I'm not that's not I'm not a card guy, I don't think.

SPEAKER_01 12:33

You might turn into one. There's money to be made there.

SPEAKER_03 12:36

Yeah, I don't know. What do you think about it? We should go back there tomorrow and get some cards. You want to buy some cards? Yeah. And do a live reveal.

SPEAKER_01 12:44

I feel like I Pokemon though, dude.

SPEAKER_03 12:47

That is wild. Logan Paul has like a million dollar Pokemon card that he made like a fucking necklace out of.

SPEAKER_02 12:52

Yeah, that I mean again, when we were talking about like the watches, right? Like, it's just that collection, that collector's piece, and like people are like going crazy over, especially like my age, and then like Gary V has his own cards now, and it's just like it's a different world, but I never really got into it.

SPEAKER_03 13:09

Yeah, me either. I didn't get into cards, but I didn't think I'd get into watches either, and now here we are, yeah, freaking looking at watches. But um, we had tonight we were we're going to the F1 arcade. This is something I've wanted to do for a while, so pretty stoked about that. Going to do some e sim racing um and dinner with another investor that's a mer he's a Maryland investor?

SPEAKER_02 13:32

Yeah, yeah, he's a wholesaler uh contractor, Joe Estevon.

SPEAKER_03 13:35

He's a contractor, yeah. He's out of Savannah Park.

SPEAKER_01 13:39

Yeah, yeah. He does not have a lot of things. He's like those where you guys live in like Glen Burney down there.

SPEAKER_02 13:43

Oh he's like really in Saverna Park. No, I'm just kidding. Uh no, they they do a lot all over Maryland. Um, but they've really pivoted to wholesaling a lot, him and um his partner Alex.

SPEAKER_03 13:56

Yeah, I feel like they've tried to sell me a couple houses in Moco in Montgomery. Yeah, yeah. That's where they're like pretty well being. Um but none of the deals have made sense for for us to to buy. But they're I feel like the wholesaling game is just like I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 14:11

Saturated and tough.

SPEAKER_03 14:12

It's so saturated, it's so tough. And and if you want to do it at a high level, you really need to put like at least 50k a month into marketing.

SPEAKER_01 14:20

I feel like to be. And you can't just jump there, you know, you have to slowly get there. But people that are starting out in wholesaling, it's like they don't know numbers, so they just throw a deal out, get under contract with the seller, and then throw it out there, and everyone's like, Who's gonna buy this?

SPEAKER_03 14:31

You know, but a lot of investors are that's the crazy part. That's what sucks, is that the new investors come in and they just want a deal.

Cards, Clout, And Collectibles

SPEAKER_01 14:37

That happens so often where an investor will buy something just because they're anxious to buy their first deal or a deal, and they'll lose money like crazy. Yeah, and then it's just like you know, another new investor comes in and does the same thing, and I'm like, okay.

SPEAKER_02 14:51

It's weird because like, you know, I had almost analysis analysis paralysis when I first started. Like, I was just analyzing deals, and it wasn't like that. Do you think it was just like over time it's just gotten so popular to where people are like, I know I'm I'm thinking about this too much, I just gotta buy one.

SPEAKER_03 15:07

Yeah, I think it just got so sexy online, yeah. And like everybody started doing it and making content about it, and like bigger pockets came out, and like I I just think it got everybody and everybody that word passive income, everybody thinks it's like a oh, I could just passively buy real estate and make a bunch of money, which isn't actually the case at all. Like it's if you want to make real money, it's a job, like you need to do it as a job, not a not a passive investment. I feel like back when we started, it was it could have been a passive investment.

SPEAKER_01 15:35

That was my thought process when I first started, like, oh, I need to figure out how I can make money and not do anything, making money when I'm sleeping. And it's not really the case. You have to put in a lot of work, a lot of hours, a lot of like analyzing the numbers.

SPEAKER_03 15:48

And you're constantly like when you own a portfolio and you manage it, you have you're on call all the time. Like at any point right now, somebody can call me and say a house is on fire.

SPEAKER_01 15:55

Yeah, we're kind of like call the fire department. Call the fire department. Why are you calling me? I'm I'm I don't have a fire truck at all.

SPEAKER_03 16:01

I have gotten calls from the fire department in the middle of the night because of like carbon monoxide alarms, and but like that is not a passive thing whatsoever.

SPEAKER_02 16:09

Well, I mean that begs the question though, Nick. If you didn't have your landscaping company, how passive would your portfolio be? I mean, I know you have you have a hundred units, you have how many vacancies do you have right now? Thirteen. Thirteen vacancies. Like, how much work would you actually have to put into that and could you survive off a hundred units?

F1 Arcade Plans And Local Investor

SPEAKER_01 16:28

So I've also been flipping too. Um, I actually might slowly like fizzle out of the landscaping. Why not sell it? Well, I might do that. I have a lot of equipment and stuff like that. Um, but I don't know if you know the customers. I mean, I do we do have like recurring revenue from customers that we had for many years that we can potentially sell, but when I talk to other people who have sold or got out of the business, it's not really like a a huge chunk. Mainly it's in the equipment, the trucks, the mowers, the trailers.

SPEAKER_03 16:57

A business like that, and knowing from like talking to people about selling the property management company, if you have good contracts like recurring HOAs and like stuff like that, like that's where the Yeah, yeah, like the bigger yeah, like the commercial contracts.

SPEAKER_01 17:10

Yeah, we were largely like residential, just homeowners. They were you know with us for many years.

SPEAKER_03 17:16

Yeah. I mean either way, you shouldn't you should s try to sell it regardless, because you have stuff.

SPEAKER_01 17:21

So I've also obviously flipped more houses too. So that kind of like brings in the city. So yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:26

So if you didn't do landscaping and you didn't flip houses, do you think you could literally just wake up every day and just like manage your properties at a very like low work work rate?

SPEAKER_01 17:38

Or I could I could. Um But I have employees that I'd have to get rid of if I got to that point and just wanted to like not do anything anything, I'd still have to probably have one full-time guy for like maintenance. Um you know I have five full-time guys on payroll just for the construction, and that's a pretty penny every week, just you know, putting it out on on you know the new stuff, the maintenance stuff, the turnover stuff. I mean, some turnovers are costly, you know, five thousand plus.

The Wholesaling Squeeze

SPEAKER_03 18:06

So for a hundred units, I've kind of figured out like you need one person like behind the desk doing like rent collection, follow-up, blah blah blah, and then you need one person in the field doing wellness checks, maintenance, all that kind of thing. And then you need somebody to do leasing. And that's like the the three pieces, like when you get to a hundred, and then when you get to like two hundred, then you need a couple more admin staff, and you can start like subbing out some maintenance stuff. But that um, you know, keeping the employees employed is yeah, is important. I would feel terrible. Like if we that's the one thing that keeps me going, honestly, like the people. Well, that was like a Christmas party the other day. We had like all those people every year when we do our Christmas party, and I see all those people, and that wasn't even all the guys, like there was like five or six families that didn't show up. When I look at the room and I'm like, holy shit, like there's a lot of people that survive off of me feeding, like giving them money, like paying.

SPEAKER_01 19:03

Yeah, like I feel like I'm more motivated to keep the guys busy than I am to buy my next deal. For example, when I first started out, my one of my um I was working with the GC and one of his subs came up to me and he's like, Nick, can you hire me full time? And I didn't have an employee on the construction side at that time. He's like, Well, if you hire me, can you hire my me and my friend? And I was like, Well, uh, you know, if I can't hire if I don't think I can hire one, what makes you think I'd hire two? But it's I was like, fuck it, let's do it. And I hired both of them, and I'm like, I gotta keep them busy. So that was my main motivation was like, they're relying on me, and that put pressure under me and fire under me to like find that next opportunity and that next property to buy just to keep them going.

SPEAKER_03 19:43

I mean, we'll randomly have got like if we're like between like inspections or something where we're we don't have like we can't work at this house, like we'll just put them in random places, even if it's kind of like a waste of money just to keep them going. Yeah. And I some of the guys got a little sauced up on uh on Thursday night. One of the guys like came up to me and he would like started like basically like almost crying, was like, Thank you so much for the work and all the opportunity, and like for my me and my family. And like that's like the biggest motivating factor about the scaling.

SPEAKER_01 20:14

It's slow right now. Like, I hear a lot of people, like one of my main guys says that one of his like a lot of his friends are calling him for work, like if there's any work out there.

SPEAKER_03 20:21

I'm getting a lot of calls, and and I'm getting connected with a lot of people through other investors that were using people that aren't flipping as much. Like Santos hit hit me up in a group chat with like a with a roofer and a siding guy, and he's like, Hey, like this is one of my guys, like he's just looking for work. So I think all the investors that slowed down like big time, all their guys are struggling because they were just doing investor work. But for for the work that I do, I can't have the investor contractor guy. Like I the high-end home.

SPEAKER_01 20:50

Oh, yeah, yeah. You gotta have somebody that can go in the house and not shit in a bag and leave it, leave it under a countertop.

SPEAKER_03 20:56

So it it's a it's a totally different ballgame. So like all these people that are also becoming, you're gonna see you've seen a bunch of people become contractors that are that were investors and flippers.

SPEAKER_01 21:06

And yeah, but then the work has to be there too.

Passive Income Myths In Rentals

SPEAKER_03 21:09

The work has to be there. And we I was talking to Ross uh the other night at uh the Studio A event, and he was like, dude, I don't know how you do it. Like I'm I don't have any homeowners that are calling me. So and he's got like trucks with you know logos, like he's he's got you know, he's much smaller, but he's he should be like busy. Like I'm doing way like I have way more than I can do right now. Um but with the contractor's piece of it, I can only trust like certain small groups of people to go into these homes. Right. And some of them literally shit in bags. Yeah. Like they shit in plastic bags and leave it on the f on the floor.

SPEAKER_02 21:48

Yeah, that's what we were talking about. And it sucks. I mean, it's good. I'm happy that you're growing at that rate. It does suck though, because like now, like we just had a house over in Annapolis that like it needs like handyman stuff, right? Like I can't call you for that because you're already too busy doing, you know, these big kitchens and stuff. So like there is like there is a need for that, but it's just like who can you trust to go like we I mean this this is a client that you know I need to sell their house for top dollar. Like I can't just like you said, send anybody.

SPEAKER_01 22:15

So like that's like a small list of stuff you're referring to, right, Chase?

SPEAKER_02 22:18

Yeah, like a punch out list, but like or like a it's gonna be one bathroom that needs to be done.

SPEAKER_01 22:22

Yeah, and like pin lists. I feel like a lot of contractors they don't like doing that stuff, they don't like doing like pin lists and small stuff.

SPEAKER_03 22:30

I still do them every once in a while for for good. Like I've done I've done a couple in the last few weeks for Jill Wooten. Like if you're like a big agent, you call me, look, like I can flex the maintenance staff to do like Rabbit is good at punch lists, so I if he's not busy, like I could flex him to do those. And the way I looked at it, what I how I used to look at it, was all those small things, doing those small things for people always leads to something bigger. Like I did a bunch of punch lists for Dennis Thomas, you know him? He's an agent up in like Moncton, he worked for Next Step or whatever. And I did like, I don't know, probably five to ten pin lists, like dumb little pin lists for him, like probably all of them less than two thousand dollar jobs. And then I got like a big basement remodel from one of his homeowner clients. Like one he sold a house and like did a big basement or something like that for like 150,000. Yeah, so I like trenched through these couple of shitty small jobs, but then ended up landing the big job. Now I'm just too busy to try to be motivated to try to do that. But like that's how you start. If you're trying to be a contractor, do the shit that the other people don't want to do because it's gonna end up you doing something else, right?

SPEAKER_01 23:37

Well, and not even that, you can just perfect it and just do all of it and just make it as long as it profits, it makes sense. The problem is it's those those jobs are very hard because the people don't want to pay.

Could 100 Units Pay The Bills

SPEAKER_03 23:48

Like, most of you think about this way like if you're calling me to do your bathroom, it's because you want it to be done. It's not no most of the time, it's not like a necessity. It's something that you want. Your kitchen, you want it to be redone. But a pin list, nobody wants that. Yeah, like except the buyer, and they're not paying. So you're you're kind of like stuck with your it's like working for investors as a contractor. It's the same thing. Like they don't want to pay, they don't want to do that job. It's not adding value, it's not making them any money. So you're just the the guy that's tr trying to make something off of them, and with a$2,000 total job, what are you what are you making? Four or four hundred bucks, you know, five hundred bucks.

SPEAKER_01 24:25

And you're and that's true, because it's an expense that the seller didn't really anticipate, right? Right. And and then you're trying to make a profit, and if they see the number, they might try to like you know cut the number down, and then it's like no one's satisfied, and and everybody's mad.

SPEAKER_03 24:40

It's the same thing as property management maintenance stuff. Like, yeah, sure. I make if I do a hundred dollar call, I make ten dollars. Like it's a ten percent markup. Like that's not you can't survive on that. Yeah, you can never survive on that. So uh if you're doing it, and and the other problem is competing with people that are like not licensed, not insured, like we have uh workers' compensation insurance, we got trucks, vehicle insurance. I mean, we're paying thousands and thousands of dollars a month in just insurance. And then you're we're competing against guys that are they got one, they own one truck, they have no insurance, they don't have a bond, they don't have anything, and they can charge a whole lot less than than I have to charge. And people think it's like, oh, well, you're just too expensive. It's it's not that, it's like I'm probably making the same margin as that other guy, but I just have I'm doing it by the book. Yeah, like I just have more expenses. Um, and that's why I stopped really working for investors. Yeah, fucking suck. Yeah, most of them are just trying to get something for free or for cheap.

SPEAKER_01 25:43

And it's it's a you know, it was a better time in 2020, 2021 where interest rates were low. Investors could, you know, burr out of a property and still cash flow and they could flip a property without doing uh you know high-end renovation.

SPEAKER_03 25:56

And yeah, Chase and I were talking about this the other day, and why the reason we got into these like small development lots, and I was telling people like on I he's on a pop, I think we're on the podcast or something. He's like, stop maybe it was a story, he's like, stop saying that, everybody's gonna get into it. And I'm like, no, they're not, because in that game in flipping and development and building, you need a builder, and that builder's the one that's gonna make the money if they're not like the if they're not the investor. They're gonna make all the money and the investor like it's either one or the other right now with the current market. It's either the contractor and builder is gonna make money or the investor is gonna make money. In our situation, we are the builder, so we can make money. But if we weren't the builder, we wouldn't it wouldn't be worth it for us to do to put out that much money and risk that much money to make what we would make if the contractor was making a fair margin.

SPEAKER_01 26:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:46

So that's kind of the yeah, like you could try. You could try to go build a house, but it might work, it might not. Yeah, it might cost you a couple hundred grand to learn a hard lesson.

Staff, Turnovers, And Overhead

SPEAKER_02 26:58

But it's also super expensive too to do that, to even if you're flipping, right? Like we're I mean, we're dropping 70 to 80,000 on a lot, cash, and then holding that for three or four months. Yeah, and most investors that like that's total in the deal.

SPEAKER_03 27:15

Right, and that's three months of doing nothing like nothing, nothing's happening. Like right now, like we have I think it's probably like 150,000 out on uh on uh one of these lots, and we just have a foundation down, and we're about to get a loan on it finally that the foundation's down. But we've been doing we've been dealing with this deal for over a year, like literally between the development, the subdivision, all that stuff. It's been a year, and we're not even the one doing the actual development. Like we bought it from the person doing the doing this, you know, the side-by-side development, not the vertical development. We're building it vertically, but it's been in the works for a year, and we've had money out on the street now for months. We just dropped another 80k on a lot that we won't even see a permit until February. So it's just like money just sitting out there, and then we pray that the market appreciates or stays flatlined because we're underwriting the deal now, but we're not gonna be able to sell it until next year or like late this year. Yeah. So uh you're like, if there is a 10% correction, that's could be all the all the profit. So it's not uh it's not an easy game to play right now, I'll say that. No. But today, Kevin's made it sound real easy for him. Yeah, he was paying I don't even want to say it on four percent for property management. Yeah, absolutely bonkers. And it's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 28:39

I mean he was saying the units were like sixteen hundred each, and that was I don't know. Sixteen fifty advanced. I didn't ask him like if it was a two-bed or three-bedroom, but they were apartment units. So maybe it's easier to manage up here in Boston than it is. Oh, I'm sure it's harder.

SPEAKER_03 28:56

It's gotta be harder. No, no, no, I'm far as far as like tenant management. Oh, I'm sure it's he said C class. I'm sure this is similar C class, C class, but as a property manager, he's paying sixty-six dollars a unit. Like, what how does a property management company make money managing a unit for sixty-six dollars? Like that's in that's insane. Unless you're doing thousands and thousands of units, and then still it's still there's still no margin there.

SPEAKER_01 29:22

Yeah, because they bought five units and then another five units. I'm assuming they're not in the same street or next to each other. So yeah, to so that's six hundred and sixty bucks for ten units that are in two five unit unit buildings. Yeah, that's not a lot at all.

SPEAKER_03 29:38

No, you can't even pay a VA that much. You know, like that's like I wonder how that is.

SPEAKER_01 29:43

Yeah, maybe he has some sort of deal with his influence and social media that uh I don't know, maybe he like uh promotes the management company in some way.

SPEAKER_03 29:53

Well, he did today.

SPEAKER_02 29:54

I think he did drop their name today. Well, I mean, even if you are doing thousands and thousands of units as a property manager, you're probably not doing them very well. Yeah. No, there's no way.

Why Small Jobs Can Lead Big

SPEAKER_03 30:03

I mean, the big guys in Baltimore that are doing thousands of units all get hate, like they all people don't like them and they switch to the smaller outfits like us. Um, we're constantly getting clients from the big companies because they just outsource everything to the Philippines. Where we have people in the Philippines too, but like everything goes to the Philippines, and that's the only way that they can do it for cheaper. Yeah. At scale. But I think this one's gotta be, we've got to wrap this one up, right? Yeah, got uh little dinner date with uh Maryland guy, and uh yeah, just wanted to get another another episode in. Um hopefully this will come out after the probably yeah today's one. So give us uh give us some love, follow, subscribe, and we'll see you next time. Peace.