Have you ever wondered what it takes to thrive in the highly competitive real estate market? Our guest, Michael Schiff, a seasoned real estate expert, takes us on his journey from his early career decisions to his path to becoming a successful real estate agent in 2004, providing us with a unique perspective of the real estate world. Michael candidly shares his experiences, including the effects of the 2008-2009 housing crash and the importance of aligning with the right agents, all while maintaining a strong team culture.
The second part of our discussion with Michael gets into the nitty-gritty of generating leads, recruiting agents, and maneuvering through the challenging real estate market post-housing crash. Michael sheds light on his switch from Keller Williams to EXP, highlighting the benefits of EXP in terms of compensation plans, resources, and access to a supportive nationwide network. We also delve into the pivotal role of transaction coordination and how being part of a large real estate organization can provide numerous benefits.
In the final leg of our enlightening conversation with Michael, we explore his strategies for marketing his team's listings, building client trust, and working with various forms of real estate financing. From analyzing the potential risks and rewards of investing in multi-family properties to navigating the challenges of training agents to work with investors, Michael uncovers a wealth of information. By the end of this episode, you will walk away with a deeper understanding of the intricate dynamics of the real estate world, agent recruitment strategies, and effective marketing techniques. Get ready for a hefty dose of knowledge and insights!
Have you ever wondered what it takes to thrive in the highly competitive real estate market? Our guest, Michael Schiff, a seasoned real estate expert, takes us on his journey from his early career decisions to his path to becoming a successful real estate agent in 2004, providing us with a unique perspective of the real estate world. Michael candidly shares his experiences, including the effects of the 2008-2009 housing crash and the importance of aligning with the right agents, all while maintaining a strong team culture.
The second part of our discussion with Michael gets into the nitty-gritty of generating leads, recruiting agents, and maneuvering through the challenging real estate market post-housing crash. Michael sheds light on his switch from Keller Williams to EXP, highlighting the benefits of EXP in terms of compensation plans, resources, and access to a supportive nationwide network. We also delve into the pivotal role of transaction coordination and how being part of a large real estate organization can provide numerous benefits.
In the final leg of our enlightening conversation with Michael, we explore his strategies for marketing his team's listings, building client trust, and working with various forms of real estate financing. From analyzing the potential risks and rewards of investing in multi-family properties to navigating the challenges of training agents to work with investors, Michael uncovers a wealth of information. By the end of this episode, you will walk away with a deeper understanding of the intricate dynamics of the real estate world, agent recruitment strategies, and effective marketing techniques. Get ready for a hefty dose of knowledge and insights!
And that's one of the biggest things. Right Like for you and we've had this in our own businesses you bring in somebody new and it costs you money to get them trained up. For us, I just account for six months of me not really making any money on employees, and so in this you know market, how are you picking and choosing the agents that are coming to ask you to be on your team?
Speaker 2:There was a part through 2016 to 18. That was an expansion within Five Doors and we were. You know, I was a regional director, regional owner of the Maryland DC area, so I learned a lot about recruiting through those two and a half years of agent count, agent count like that's all that mattered. You know it costs money to bring somebody into the organization, so during the expansion time we would bring agents in and we started to loot the culture. It costs money, agents weren't getting into production and it started to be a strain on the organization. So now we're paying a lot more attention to just bringing an agent in for the sake of bringing an agent in for account purposes and making sure like they're motivated and they're aligned within the culture of the team.
Speaker 1:Welcome to the Everyday Millionaire Show with Ryan Greenberg and Nick Calvis. All right, guys, we are back with another episode of the Everyday Millionaire Show. We are here with Michael Schiff from the Schiff Home Team. How you doing, michael, doing great today. How are you? How are you? I'm good, I'm good, nick, how's it going? Doing good man? So Mike or Michael, yeah, michael, michael, yeah, cool. So Michael, give us a quick like elevator pitch on your background prior to getting into real estate college, high school. How did you do in school? What? Just like a elevator, you know.
Speaker 2:Elevator pitch might be tough, but I'll sum it up quickly. So I went to Gropin Baltimore Gropin around the Randallstown, Pikesville area Went to when people around Baltimore actually where we went to school, they mean where we went to high school so went to Pikesville High for two years. Then in 10th and 11th grade I went to Massinutton Military Academy in Virginia. I needed some good structure in my life at that time and it did just that. It was really good, Was able to rise through the ranks at military school, Became the battalion commander, captain of the football team, all that good stuff. And then I left military school, did a year at Villa Julli, which is now Stevenson University, and then after Stevenson went to University of Florida in Gainesville. So went into the business school down there it's a Warrington School of Business Studied business administration, management and I was doing a specialization in criminology to become a lawyer, which I thought I wanted to do.
Speaker 2:And some things changed and I ended up taking a year off of from graduating in 2004,. Took that year off and was just kind of wondering what I was gonna do with my life. I took the LSAT but I didn't apply for law schools at the time. So I figured what could I do with this year? And it was October of 2004 that I thought well, I'll go out and get my real estate license. And I had no idea what I was gonna get myself into. I knew I wanted to do something that was accredited to an extent and I went to interview with commercial brokers and they all said go out and get two years of residential experience and then come back Interviewed with a couple of mortgage companies and they didn't wanna bring on new college students to enroll in their business. So, as a newly graduated college student, I ended up going to sit for the real estate class, took the exam within 60 days and passing out license in December of 2004.
Speaker 3:Nice. So I have an actual similar story. I wanted to go to law school, I wanted to be a lawyer, and I was too late to it because I needed some assistance, like a scholarship, and I was too late to apply for it. So I just enrolled in like a graduate new program that they had at University of Baltimore at the time. And then I'm like, do I wanna do this or do I wanna get into real estate? And then I was like, took real estate classes my last semester at grad school, me human realtor.
Speaker 2:There you go See that I didn't know that, yeah, so kind of like backed into it, didn't necessarily grow up saying I wanted to be in real estate and never really paid attention to the architecture of like buildings or any of that, like we didn't grow up with HGTV shows. So nowadays you see a lot of young kids in their kids or teenagers that come on showings with agents or with their buyers or mom and dads as buyers and they know more information about the property that I do sometimes, because they just study the apps and everything like that, which is pretty wild. So I look at those kids and I'm like you guys would make great realtor's, you know, but didn't have any of that. It was just kind of backed into it as default. But I did like the business side of things. I liked sales, I liked investment properties and things were like very black and white. So it seemed like a good easy fit. Coming from you know the background I came from.
Speaker 1:So with 2004,. Then we had the impending crash in 2008, 2009. How did that affect your business? Did you have a good run up, at least to that time where it crashed?
Speaker 2:I did. I did. I was lucky enough to get hooked up with a small boutique broker at the time. I got linked up with a Simone real estate, which doesn't exist anymore but many people might know Mark Simone in our local marketplace. So Mark Stad, vito Simone was a broker, had a very small independent brokerage and I linked up with him and he really gave me a big opportunity.
Speaker 2:You know, part of the reasons I didn't go to law school was I had some. I had a criminal background from University of Florida when I was there. So it kind of prevented me from applying for law schools and I, you know, even had trouble getting my real estate license initially. So I share that for any listeners out there that may have gone through similar challenges in the past. I had a Vito was my you know kind of person that believed in me and walked me down to the commissioner's office to make sure that they understood he would be overseeing me and my responsibilities. So it is possible, with a background, to get your real estate license with the right you know surroundings of people you know that are with you, that are willing to support you through it.
Speaker 1:Awesome. So how many years? Well, I guess what happened in 2008?. So after the crash, did you have like a really tough couple of years? Did you have to get another job? Did you stick with real estate? How did that work?
Speaker 2:So I started off with a really good run up from. O5 was my first full year and the brokerage I was with we got started with investment properties and, being 21 years old, you know it was very easy to identify a good deal in the sense where it's easier to work with an investment property than it was for a retail buyer or seller. I was young and it was hard for me to have confidence in myself and for other people to believe in me that I would be able to help them. But if I was willing to go into neighborhoods to find investment properties, it was a good fit and we focused our time and attention on a lot of areas of Baltimore City. So that run up of O5 and O6 was very good. I learned a lot about the investment and construction side of the business at that time.
Speaker 2:And then 2007 came, when the subprime market crashed. It was August of 2007. And I remember being at a settlement at that time when one of the banks failed and you know we did our job, you know, sold the property and made it through inspections, appraise, all that. All we had to do was show up and get paid and the settlement officer walked into the room and said that they're not gonna be funding this deal.
Speaker 2:So in O8, when things started to get a little bit more rougher, I ended up getting involved with a business that my dad started at the same time. It was a dental brokerage and also a wealth management company, so just as a it was an opportunity that was on the table. I was still grinding it out with real estate. I was wearing this dental brokerage hat where we would help dentists, you know, sell their dental practices when they're ready for transition, and that was similar to what we were doing in real estate sales. So that kind of went hand in hand. And then I had the bright idea to go out and get my investment advisory license and basically a Siri 65 to support my dad's CPA firm. So I was a wealth manager, a dental broker and a real estate agent from 2008 to 2011. That helped kind of support those years when the market turned.
Speaker 3:So you were a solo agent at the time or worked on a team.
Speaker 2:I was a solo agent. Mark and Simone and I, who I mentioned before, we were partners from probably 2005 to 2007. We had the go-to team. It was one of the first teams weren't really big back in 05, but you know it was like a partnership. And then I was a solo agent from end of 2007 to about 2011, when I decided to build the team.
Speaker 1:So my next question is how many years were you selling independently quote, unquote before you started the team?
Speaker 2:About seven years, seven years.
Speaker 3:And would you recommend that for people out there who want to become new agents to join as a solo agent or to become a realtor on a team?
Speaker 2:I chased my tail for seven years and it was just because I wasn't open to the model of real estate. It took me seven years to get really exposed to it. So I ran around chasing my tail, didn't have any systems. I ran around with like a pocket full of post-it notes of who I was supposed to call back that day and Excel spreadsheet of my you know, so-called database and tracking sheet. So a team definitely helped me kind of get organized and create some systems that helped leverage the business.
Speaker 2:And so what I would recommend I mean any new agent getting into the business. There's a lot of value in joining a team and being able to learn how to you know, run a real estate business properly and the metrics around it. However, it's not to say that somebody brand new can get started. I believe the state of Maryland requires three years of real estate experience before starting your own team. So there's that piece, but there's nothing that would prevent anybody from doing it. But I would probably recommend there's a. You know, if you join a team, that offers a lot of value. There's a lot of value that you can get and learn at the team owner's expense, in a sense. You know, get your leads. Get you know the support, transaction listing, coordination, the things you need, photography, signs get that all paid for. Learn the business in the first three years and maybe after that you make a decision whether it's for you to you know, build your own team or stay on the team and grow.
Speaker 1:So how many agents currently do you have working on your team? We have 20 agents on the team now Nice and so now over. You survived 2008,. Now we're in a time where rates are high, volume overall is down. Nick and I are both investors. We focus on investment properties. I'm not so much in the residential space as much, but I am an agent. I sell my own flips and that kind of thing and its volume is down. What is your plan, or what is your kind of? What are you gonna do differently now than you did last year?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we are just very hyper focused on the conversations around the market and what's going on. So rates are high, inventory is low and there's a lot of the. Affordability is a big issue right now and inventory is a big issue. So we focus a lot on finding the motivated and that's a big focus around the team. Some will, some won't. Who cares?
Speaker 2:Next is a phrase that we use a lot on the team, so it's just a matter of you know, soi is our primary source of business, for our agents in our team business.
Speaker 2:So we're constantly putting out marketing towards events for our sphere of influence and we'll get plenty of referrals from that part of the business. However, when we're not, when we've you know it's exploited all options within our sphere of influence. Now we're moving on to other data leads, you know, through motivated sellers, some internet leads that we still pay for to get through it, and we're looking for motivation. So we're looking like for the seven Ds of real estate that create motivation. So we'll run through them divorce, death, diamonds, diplomas, diapers or distress. So those seven Ds, if we can tap into a buyer or seller's motivation, then we know they need to move If somebody's getting married and they're, you know, growing out of their household. They don't care so much about a rate that's seven and a quarter, in a sense, when they need more space, when there's death, there's a house to be sold. So we're targeting those type of motivated seller, leads or buyers that must make decisions and move in this market.
Speaker 3:So are you getting more seller leads or buyer leads now than you were? Let me rephrase that Are you getting more buyer and seller leads now versus two years ago?
Speaker 2:There was more buyer leads in the marketplace two years ago because there's just a lot of people that wanted to buy with lower interest rates and there were sellers that wanted to sell in order to tap into their equity. I think the equity positions are still high for sellers right now. We haven't seen so much of a drop off there, just maybe not so much of an acceleration with that appreciation. However, I would say it's definitely slowed down from where it was before. So we're constantly throwing more activity at generating those leads, or more dollars at generating those leads, in order to have enough people to call throughout the day.
Speaker 1:Have you tried like skip tracing lists and such like that, like Pinpoint Skip, they could you know.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, so that's kind of. One of our secondary sources of leads is through skip tracing and through data list.
Speaker 1:So when your overall volume is down on the team, how do your individual agents become affected by that?
Speaker 2:It's a great question. We're outpacing the market. If the market's down 30% and we're down five or 10%, like we're still outpacing the market but our volume has been down just overall, with overall volume down. It affects individual agents because if the team's volume down, the volume's down. We try to create win-wins within the team.
Speaker 2:So there's some newer agents that are just coming into the business and we have put together an ISA program for them where they would come in and the metrics on the team is to set three appointments a week, hold two appointments and get one signature a week, either a buyer agency or a seller agency. So that is the standard on the team. So they have to make whatever amount of calls within their conversion ratio in order to hit that metric. Now if there's a new agent that's coming in and they have the time and they're not going on appointments they can make. Usually that can be done with 10 contacts a day. To get to three, two, one A new agent might take a little bit more. So they might need to make 50 contacts a day or 60 contacts a day. We will actually pay them in an ISA role in order to jumpstart that. So you can pay them a salary plus a portion of the commission, so they can start to build their pipeline.
Speaker 1:Okay, that sounds nice for somebody coming in, because I mean, that's one of the biggest things right Like for you, and we've had this in our own businesses you bring in somebody new and it costs you money to get them trained up to. You know, for us I just account for six months of me not really making any money on employees until they can do things on their own. So in this you know market, how are you picking and choosing the agents that are coming to ask you to be on your team?
Speaker 2:Yeah, there was a part, you know, through 2016 to 18, I was in expansion within five doors and we were, you know, I was a regional director and regional owner of the Maryland DC area, so we learned a lot. I learned a lot about recruiting through those two and a half years of agent count agent count like that's all that mattered and being, you know, affiliated with a Kella Williams franchise before. It was all about agent count as well. So you know, we were constantly focused on like just bringing on agents. If you can fog up a mirror, like, come on in.
Speaker 2:But, like you said, ryan, you know it costs money to bring somebody into the organization. So there was a part of during the expansion time we would bring agents in. We had over 25 agents on the team at that time and in one location while managing five other locations around it, and we started to loot the culture. It costs money, agents weren't getting into production and it started to be a strain on the organization. So now we're paying a lot more attention to just bringing an agent in for the sake of bringing an agent in for account purposes and making sure like they're motivated and they're aligned within the culture of the team, because you know it costs money.
Speaker 2:Turnover, you know, takes wind out of the culture of the organization, so it's really sitting down with them and you know, figuring out their motivation, setting expectations, like it could be three to six months before you're rocking and rolling with your pipeline and getting paychecks. Do you have, you know, resources to get you through, or do we need to talk about, you know, some other type of comp plan and you know being able to, you know, determine who is able to do that, because if somebody comes in with the expectation like within 30 days they're gonna have a check, it's the wrong expectation to come in. Is it possible? It is possible, but it's really not the reality of real estate and being on the team.
Speaker 3:So you're with EXP now. Right, correct, yes, what made you transition from Keller Williams to EXP?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so actually the 31st of this month will be two years, so two year anniversary coming up. It was, you know, somewhat outgrow in the opportunity that was available within Keller Williams and seeing the opportunity within EXP and of how exponentially, you know, greater it was, we ended up making the decision. We, as a larger team, we were kind of on an island of ourself. We kind of processed our own transactions and didn't rely on the broker so much other than clearing the transaction itself. The leadership there's a leadership change within our office and the dust was still settling. We're just trying to figure out the next steps and we were able to find these great leaders Kyle Whistle and Dan Beer on San Diego, that have walked this walk well before us and are selling, you know, 600 million to a billion dollars of real estate.
Speaker 2:And we thought, like you know, we were kind of starting to outgrow the opportunity within our local market and we wanted some folks that were able to pour into us, to be able to grow. We kept on hitting this like $100 million ceiling and that was it. And within our market center there wasn't too many agents doing over $100 million. So we felt as though if we wanted to break that ceiling, we needed to surround ourselves by others that have broken that ceiling. So, aligning within the EXP, we aligned with other organizations and teams you know through our upline that have, you know that sell 200 to a billion dollars of real estate Each and every year and are so willing to share their systems and strategies with us on how they did it, and that over top of the, the, the comp plan, through exp, within Revenue share and stock awards. A lot of people laugh at it and you know I can understand, being somewhat of a multi-level marketing company, that would be their initial thought.
Speaker 1:I literally said that right before this podcast, right before you got here, we were talking about it and I was like why and this is one of my questions is why EXP or why any brokerage, if you have the experience that you have? Like, I'm close with James Weisskicker, yeah, you know he owns next step. He, he owns next step, so he gets everything from that. Why now, with the experience that you have and the agents that you have, why don't you start your own thing? What is exp really giving you that keeps you there?
Speaker 2:Yeah, we, we looked into the opportunity of like starting our own or doing a small independent, just the. The cost benefit of the liability responsibility and the lack of a like international brand was somewhat Not worth the cost and the savings. I mean what we pay in the exp is very minimal. You're talking about $16,000 that you get back in stock once you sell 30 houses a year, so a cost that that cost goes away. The agents on the team it's $4,000 for them to be on it, to be, you know, affiliated.
Speaker 3:Year per year.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So you know it's minimal. When you start to think about the cost of having a broker, having compliance, having all the other liability and exposure, and when things you know hit the fan like that, you know takes your time away to focus on those problems. So as a leverage play there, it also opens us up to the additional resources Of people across the country that are just so willing to help us grow. And as we have brought people into exp, you know there's rewards and benefits of doing that outside of. You know that that continue on through revenue share. So it's a real thing. Numbers start adding up. There's, you know, commas and you know checks. There's multiple commas and the stock awards. So it's just it's it's. It's something that Is not feasible, in my opinion, by doing a complete independent and it just gives a little bit more freedom and flexibility then Having to have the responsibility of running your own so, like admin staff, your transaction coordination Is that through you or is that through exp?
Speaker 1:like who pays for that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that is, through this shift.
Speaker 1:Home team you have to pay for your admin. You have to pay for those people, right. And then the $4,000 for your agents. The agents are paying, that they pay that yes, okay. So there are some benefits to sticking with that big name, big bucks, organization kind of thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean exp locally here. Still, it reminded me of kello wins when I first joined in 2011. People weren't familiar with kello wins. Back then. They you know it was a lot of keller who, so you know it's it's building upon itself. But you know there is a network of individuals and support that happens behind the closed doors and within Facebook. You know private groups, masterminds that go on, and those are the masterminds that help our business grow. So I could be on an island of by myself as an independent broker and just networking with limited amount of people. Or you know, the way I grew my business was through masterminding and hanging out with other people that were just doing it a lot better than I was and Taking things from their business. So with an exp, I just have access To so many people that are doing. You know big numbers. You know bigger numbers than people locally in our town.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I agree with that. You know people that want to grow. They definitely have to change their surroundings in most cases to get to that next level.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I mean, for me it was always just like how much are they taking and what are they giving, because I feel like some of those, you know it's. It's easy to say, oh, I've heard of exp, I've heard of kw, but what are they actually taking away from you, is you know, and what are they giving to you? Really, is the the big thing? Like, are they doing the compliance for you or do you still have to hire a compliance person? Because you mentioned compliance before and I'm like, okay, well, are they actually paying for that person to do the compliance or do you still have to pay for that?
Speaker 2:Right. So within exp they pay for the compliance. So all the broker review and compliance is paid for by exp, but transaction coordination or listing coordination is paid for by the team.
Speaker 3:Okay, so do you just have to email somebody for compliance when you're doing each contract?
Speaker 2:Yes, yep, and then broker reviews done on like sky slope. So we upload our documents, it all gets reviewed and you know can't get paid unless every you know document is uploaded. So there's definitely a checks and balances there. That is probably more compliant if I were trying to do it independently. It's just more of a formalized system and technology that's already built it in place, versus you know going out and building our own or you know bootstrapping on to something else.
Speaker 3:So, because contracts can be different state to state, is there like a Maryland person who does compliance for only Maryland and are they local to Maryland, or are they?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's the beauty thing of like exp is mean there's one broker per state. Okay, so the value in that is, you know, within a kelly Williams franchise many people might be familiar with, there might be three, four or five hundred agents within that franchise and within Maryland laws If you want to co-broke with somebody or do an open house for somebody, it has to be within that immediate brokerage within that franchise or market center. Within exp there's one broker for the entire state. So we have close to two thousand, over two thousand agents in the in the state. So it opens up our ability to network off market deals coming soon and, you know, co-brokes or open houses directly within a network of two thousand versus like three hundred. So there is a broker review desk, if anybody's familiar with exp.
Speaker 2:There's also a virtual world is kind of what they initially built. I Haven't gone on it that much. I mean it is like the Sims, if you've ever played that game, and you can walk through it. So you can either send an email and get a response and that's typically what we do or call them. But if you're really feeling frisky, you can go into the virtual world and you can take your avatar and walk to the Maryland room. Go to the broker desk and there's another avatar there and you can simply talk into your microphone and interact with it that way.
Speaker 1:Wow, it's pretty well. World is getting crazy. So for marketing, are you in a specific area, like, are you focusing on zip codes? Are you just Maryland in general? The reason I asked is because we've had some Listings or potential listings, like I have one that I'm about to flip an Elkton. Now I don't know if I even want to sell that property in Elkton because it's out of my zone. What is your guys's zone and do you pick your agents based on where they're located so you could focus on grow different areas, or how does that work for you guys?
Speaker 2:so for Special zip codes, I mean Zillow. We've pulled back a lot of spend from Zillow but we do. We're in like the Pikesville zip codes for Zillow and that's just because a little bit of our backyard have some more name recognition within Pikesville and everything like that. That can help with the conversion of those leads. But outside of that our seller leads and where we market is by a data list. So a lot of times that might take us to Prince George's County, frederick County. You know we've been into Cecil County before but primarily it's Baltimore City, baltimore County that probably makes up 90% of our business.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so when you have, let's say, a Meeting with somebody that's in you know Hartford County or Cecil County, right, what kind of things do you say to try to lock in that thing? Because one of their questions will be how do you know the local market? Yeah, you probably don't know the local market that well, so what's one of the strategies that you get to lock in those listings? If you don't really know the local market, how do you get them to trust you?
Speaker 2:right. So a lot of times we'll match up our agents with Geographical locations. You know where they live. So we have agents that live in Howard County and Arundel County, carroll County, baltimore City, baltimore County, and We'll match up as best as we can with the lead that comes in. But regardless, if we're in an area that we just haven't, we don't have a presence in, chances are we might have had some sales there because we cover a lot of ground. So we'll reference some previous sales. But even regardless of that, we will say that we have proven systems and strategies that work in any market in any location and that you know that they're tried and true systems that we will put to work for them.
Speaker 2:And you know, a lot of times, going with a neighborhood specialist or somebody that says they have buyers, which we hear a lot, you know when an listing agent tells them they have buyers, you know then they're conflicted out from.
Speaker 2:You know who are they representing. Are they representing buyers? Are they going to represent them? So we tell them to be cautious of you know Somebody that is touting how many buyers that they have, or you know, being the neighborhood specialist, they might not have access to the same systems and strategies. They might just be local to one neighborhood and chances are the buyers not going to be coming from that neighborhood. So we like to cast a broader net when we market and not limit ourselves Just to that neighborhood and rely on the proven systems and strategies that have worked and have been effective in other areas. And we'll pull up other properties that have sold outside of our cell box, if you will, and let them know how we successful you know, show them success strategies from other sales In other areas and how those strategies work for those properties and they can work for them.
Speaker 3:So because of the higher interest rates now, have you had any sellers recently offer any type of subject to deals?
Speaker 2:We have that conversation a lot when we go out for our listing appointments. We're having different conversations with them. A lot of our initial exploratory calls are giving them different options. We're not a one-trick pony where we're going to go out and list the house. We're going to give them options of, you know, bringing them a cash buyer to buy it. Now we're going to give them options if they wanted to list it on the MLS, depending on the condition. We're going to advise them that there, you know, could be subject to inspections, it could be subject to Having to get it ready for the market, staging and all that which they may not want to do.
Speaker 2:We have another product on the team where we will help them fix their property up and get it ready for the market and we will actually lend them the money and manage the project for them. And we do that at a fee through our spark program. So through our spark program we have a program where, if there's enough equity in the house and the sellers are motivated and there is either a relationship in place or the motivation is there we will lend them Up to fifty thousand dollars to do improvements to the house If the numbers are just too tight for an investor to buy it. But there's equity in the house that they want to tap into and they don't have the money. Sometimes it's carpet paint, appliances, you know, painting the cabinets, replacing the cabinets, doing the roof deck. So we'll do those sort of things in order to, you know, have another option in our tool box to belt to be able to offer them. And a lot of times we find, even with the Management fee and finance fee that's offered with that Program, that they're still netting, you know, 25 to 35 thousand dollars more than they would had. They, you know, just sold it as is. And then the last option is like the seller, financing or subject to. So I had a property from a lead over the weekend.
Speaker 2:Sellers in foreclosure on a property in the city. It's rented out for 1900 dollars a month, her mortgage on it as a thousand and she owes 145 on it, 146. So there is an opportunity to, you know, sell that property subject to, take over the existing mortgage and, you know, kind of solve her problem from foreclosure and, you know, have a property that will cash flow 900 a month in that scenario. So we're looking for that. Some sellers are not understanding that, so it takes a little bit more explaining, but it's definitely a conversation that we're having in order to create opportunity. Because they locked in at a lower rate, rates are higher now if they're set on a certain number that they want to get out of the property. We can help you get that number if we can get the terms on the contract, whether that seller, financing or subject to so that's.
Speaker 3:You said it's a spark program. That you guys. What happened? Have you guys been doing that?
Speaker 2:for a few months now, nice, yeah, so it's fairly new, but we have three projects under our belt, with a couple more in the pipeline right now, and yeah.
Speaker 3:So how do you structure it as far as Making sure that they do sell the house and that they do pay you back?
Speaker 2:Do you guys just put like a second lien on the promissory note, a recorded promissory note, gotcha, yeah, and so it's similar to like a carbo in a sense. But when we got out and get estimates from them they were like triple the cost of what it would cost to get it done and we just lost a little bit of control over the timing and everything like that. So in this case we're able to recommend our contractors, which is required within that program. We're controlling the disbursements of funds for that and you know, essentially getting the property staged, you know it's a slightly higher commission on that program as well, so it's a win-win all around. I mean generally as a realtor we're doing a lot of these things anyway for the client, you know, to get it ready for the market. This time we're just lending money. Have you had?
Speaker 1:one go wrong.
Speaker 1:Yet we have not. So do you have a plan in place? Like you know, obviously we don't know how much money you have, but losing 50,000 anybody is a good amount of money. So what's the contingency? If the house doesn't sell, we have a decline, a continued decline in the market. The house doesn't sell.
Speaker 1:The reason I ask this? Because I'm a general contractor that's one of the businesses that I own and I used to, a couple of years ago, do a lot of these kind of pro bono jobs where I'd go in, spend 15 grand doing a deck, painting, carpet, whatever, mostly for the W group. That's who I was doing most of the work for at the time and it went well. And then I started seeing the market slipping a little bit and I was like, uh, let's not, I'm not gonna do this anymore, cause I just don't want to eat 20, 30 grand and have to fight with somebody in court about their house. So the person obviously didn't have enough to pay you to pay for those repairs originally. Now what happens when their house doesn't sell? How do you recoup that money? Is there a plan in place on that note that says now you owe me, you know, a hundred bucks a month, or 500 bucks a month or whatever.
Speaker 2:There is. There's a late payment on the plan and there's a six month timeline that's built in. Generally these renovations are 30 to 45 days, so it's an adequate amount of time. We're having conversations about pricing, but you're right, I mean there's risk associated with the market If anything happens in the market and it turns, takes a you know turn for the worse and prices come down significantly. We're not running these off of short margins where they're, you know, investing this money and they're only gonna make a $5,000 difference. There's, as I mentioned, a minimum of $25,000 difference that they need to make in order for this project to make sense. So there is, I guess, some cushion in there.
Speaker 2:In that event, we try to focus on vacant properties that need to sell, as opposed to homeowners that are still living in there and doing improvements to their property while they're there that they could change their mind.
Speaker 2:And then relationships. You know the first three have been through SOI folks of agents on the team that you know there's strong relationships there. There's high levels of trust. We have a project going on with a one of our seller leads that we offer the program to, so we're working through it. So by no means is this, like you know, proven out just yet and there's certainly risks to it. However, we feel we built it in with enough margin and expectations of the market and, you know, really dug for motivation, recording a promissory note in the event of default, where, yeah, nobody wants to lose 50 grand. However, you know it may take longer to get paid back and, depending what the market does, we'd like to see at least $100,000 of equity inside the house. We're not lending it on a skinny margin inside there. You know if there's equity it's not inside the home.
Speaker 1:Right. So the marketing side of things when you get a listing, the house is listed for sale. What is your most effective way of marketing from that point on? Are you doing paper? Are you doing like open houses? What are some of the strategies that you guys use Once you do have that listing locked in?
Speaker 2:You know a lot of the marketing is built on pricing condition. You know, as we know so like getting the price right and getting the condition right. So a lot of you know the marketing per se is front loaded into making sure the house shows well and is priced right. Obviously there's still additional marketing that needs to get done that, in my eyes, becomes more of a seller tool, sometimes to attract more sellers. A lot of that is digital marketing, social marketing that is put out there, you know, through Instagram and Facebook and everything like that there is for luxury listings. You know we'll do a more of a campaign inside of a luxury marketing campaign.
Speaker 2:So when the team we have a 15 point marketing strategy that is built around each listing and market analysis, getting the property right. You know, as far as condition, the professional photography having. You know virtual tours, matterport, drone, you know all things that kind of tie into the overall marketing. You know we're not placing ads in writing anymore or any papers. Luckily nobody's asking for that anymore. It used to be a time where that was a thing, unless it's. You know we had a doll kennel listing and somebody wanted in a special doll kennel magazine and I felt as though in that case, you know, maybe there is some reach within that publication for somebody that's looking for a house that is zoned for a doll kennel. So we obliged to that. However, for all intents and purposes, most of the marketing is digital and the you know the house sells when it's priced right and it matches the condition.
Speaker 3:So when we're going with buyers now is it? The inventory is still low, as we all know. So, and even though the interest rates are high, they're still low inventory. So you would think there's still a lot of multiple offer situations. Is that happening right now still?
Speaker 1:Yes, what you're seeing, okay.
Speaker 3:And then I guess because of that do you even have any clients that ever, as on the buyer side, ask about a potential subject to deal because of maybe getting into a lower interest rate.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that mainly investors.
Speaker 2:I haven't had too many retail buyers, you know there's been some. As for assumption of loans, and usually through VA or FHA and you know the kind of the response to that that they can be timely and usually if a property's on the market with multiple offers, the seller or the listing agent may not want to enter into that type of contract where it's an assumption mortgage and taking a longer period of time On a subject to most of those we're seeing is off market. We actually started to form a list of high days on market properties to target listing agents, to offer them just another solution for their sellers If they're so hung up on this price, and started to reach out to listing agents and, you know, ask them what's going on with their listing? Why don't they think it hasn't been, hasn't sold with their seller's interest rate, and would the seller be open to creative financing? So that is, we haven't put anything together on that just yet, but that's been, you know, conversation and strategy, you know, for what we're employing now in the future.
Speaker 1:So for investors, we that's my business we find properties, we sell them to investors. Those transactions are very easy. We're selling numbers. We're not selling beautiful properties in carpet and paint. How do you train your agents on that? Because what I've had an issue with is agents that come and work for us that don't know about investing, and it's a lot to train them about investing if you're not an investor. So what is some of the training methods that you use to train your agents that maybe not real estate investors but now they're gonna try to sell to real estate investors, Cause what I've found is real estate investors that are good know more than most of the agents. So how are you training your agents to talk to those investors who probably know? If they have, you know, 10, 20, 80 deals under their belt, how are they trained to talk to those people?
Speaker 2:So we ran a monthly meetup at our office for the past several years. So we encourage our agents that want to work with investors to attend our investor meetup so they can get some exposure to the curriculum of working with an investor. What we cover in there and with other agents is, you know, the general formulas and rules of thumb, that for somebody brand new, it's something to work off of. So we're working off of like a 70% ARV, which you know has been tougher and tougher to find nowadays, but we, you know we're still staying true to that. When I got in the business it was 60, 65% and those deals are long gone. Then, as far as like rule of thumb on repairs, you know we have a kind of spreadsheet in our office of like how to estimate repairs on that and, depending on what level if it's gonna be rental grade or if it's gonna be retail how to estimate price. You know the price of repairs and obviously that varies. That's just like you know, ballpark to kind of go off of in order to, you know, figure out whether or not you're gonna spend more time looking into the deal. We spent a lot of time on pool and comps because that, you know, is the other side of the. You know, identifying the deal, being able to see if it's a deal from how much work it needs but how much would it sell for. And really being particular, we bring in appraisers to come speak to the team and let them know what their kind of guidelines are to be able to justify or make adjustments to values based on, you know, additional bedrooms, finished basements, parking in the city, parking in the county, what that? You know what the adjustments are and then how far out from a radius they would go for pool and comps. So it's just educating as much as possible.
Speaker 2:On, you know, evaluating an investment property, throwing it in a spreadsheet. So we have on the team master spreadsheets for proformas whether you're evaluating a rental property as a single unit, a multifamily property or a multi-property portfolio. They can pull up any tab throwing the addresses, the rent and the expenses, and be able to determine whether that's a good deal based on a cap rate. That becomes a little bit easier to do because we have all the numbers On the other side on the fix and flip same. It's another spreadsheet. But you know going through the same kind of process of you know, purchase price, repairs, closing costs. If there's financing costs to capital, it costs to sale and to see how much money is there to be made at the end to determine if it's a good deal.
Speaker 3:Do you guys do any flips and or rentals?
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, so I do personally. And then I've started taking on that within the team. So, being a team, it's like we have to a team leader, you have to constantly create more value for your team. So we have in the past I've done fix and flips and buy and holds with other team members and this year we have started a fund in which we are buying multifamily property which team members have the opportunity to invest in. So that's an additional added value. And then we're also doing fix and flips on the team and I tell the team if you go find the property, I'll put up the money, you can put up some money into it as well, and we will partner on the deal and allocate it appropriately based on, you know, they'll use their commission on the front end, their commission on the back end and they'll put up, you know, five or $10,000. And that would all count towards their money into the deal. So, yeah, doing fix and flips have a few going on right now, couple land deals going on now and then multifamily.
Speaker 2:I mean you know I started bought my first multifamily, my investment property, which was a two unit, in 2007,.
Speaker 2:It was a Baltimore City scope property at the time which was their kind of vacant property program and I finally sold that this past year.
Speaker 2:So I held that for, I guess, 15 years or so and, you know, over that other period of time acquired another. Not like you, nick, I didn't go on a rampage in such a short period of time. I was selling real estate and managing other stuff at the time but 18 rentals and a couple multifamily buildings and as my leases began to expire the past year and a half I would throw it on the market for like high rent and a high sales price and like if I got either I'd be very happy and I was getting these high sales prices and it's so hard to part with the rental property, that cash flow so nicely. But at the same time it was so hard to like not take money off the table while things were going on and kind of repurpose that into multifamily. So that's kind of been my personal you know strategy over the past two years is just selling some individual townhomes and taking that money off the table and putting it into multifamily.
Speaker 1:So what scares me with multifamily right now especially, is if you bought a multifamily building four years ago and it's coming up on your refi time, you could be dead just from one refinance. And you have to refinance because the commercial loans are five years, sometimes 10 years. If you're lucky you might get a little bit more, but they're typically not 30 year mortgages where, like, we own all four units and under because we can lock in that 30 year rate and now I don't have to worry about a refinance. And the only time that I will have to refinance is if it's gonna benefit me greatly, and right now it's not beneficial. Obviously it's less beneficial. So that's what scares me. Do you have anything like to combat that issue that people will have when they got a three and a half or four and a half percent rate and now they're going to the bank and it's an eight and a half percent rate?
Speaker 2:We need to target those sellers that bought four or five years ago. Those will be good leads to target. Yeah, I would say, when properties, hopefully rents are increasing, you're increasing your rents during that period of time. So with multifamilies, it's important to have rental increases in there to offset that as you go. And that is the best way to try to compete or combat that. To just offset it with income. Yep.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we've analyzed our fair share of buildings and one of the other issues that we had is we made a bid on like it was 22 units, I believe it was, and we lost the bid by like hundreds of thousands of dollars. And in my head I'm like how could somebody pay that much money and still make this deal make sense? And well, it turns out I just saw the building for sale and nothing really has been done for it and it's for sale again for like an extra $500,000. And they paid for it back when I was bidding on it. But there are these People or conglomerates, businesses, that are buying up this real estate that don't have cost of financing or it's much less than than what we pay the. The competition in that realm is so much greater. As far as the people that you're the players that you're playing with, there's more people trying to buy single-family residential stuff, but the people that you're competing with on the multifamily side can squash you like a bug financially. So how, like what's your strategy with that? What size buildings?
Speaker 2:are you? Are you targeting spot is like 10 to 20 units. Okay so 10 to 20 units and my strategy and those are, I make them sober living homes in addition to recovery houses and treatment centers. So my multifamily properties are least to other organizations that operate them as recovery housing and the numbers in that are just completely different than market rents.
Speaker 3:Okay, so I actually have two Of those, but they're individual units and it's a company. It's a guy who rents two of my houses and he just it's probably like three or four bedrooms and he just has people come in there for recovery.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a great market, I mean for the listeners out there. I mean it's something that I've heard on other podcasts to to look into, depending on your, your market area for sober living housing in Maryland and you know, nationally there's a different accreditation within that. One of the levels of care is called 3.1, which isa Sober living house that offers five hours a week of treatment. So it's more of a business operation that gets ran inside there. However, if you're providing the Clinical hours through the separate entity that runs the treatment center, there's Medicaid reimbursements for, you know, each bed and some states you know it varies. In Maryland it's a little over 150 dollars a day per bed. So you turn a bed into a 4500 dollar a month rental rate and you have, you know, you know, a two unit apartment building that you can get two beds Per room and you have four beds coming in. So you have $18,000 for each unit and then you have nine units.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I bet so, yeah, that On the surface seems great, but now you also are operating a business, correct. So it's not just a rental, make no mistake, it's not.
Speaker 2:It's not just that. So thank you, yeah, I mean it's. You have significant Expenses on the operation side. You have liability on the operation side as well to take into account. So I Could not do that by my own, by myself. I've partnered with other people that have experience in that space and we have a partnership where I'll go out and find the real estate and Check the zoning and make sure everything is compliant within that and we take it to them and they, you know, get it accredited through the state and then we partner on the real estate and on the business side.
Speaker 3:Nice.
Speaker 1:That's a cool way to Make something work when it doesn't work financially. Yeah, for sure. So with that, do you have, or have you had, like, major issues with people? Also, ultimately, is the money coming from insurance companies. How does like the people that are in treatment? Are they getting paid from insurance companies for that bed?
Speaker 2:Yeah, typically these programs are through Medicaid, so directly from the government and they are. They are set up for insurance pay at a higher level of care, like 3.5, which were in the process of setting up as well, but for Currently it's all through Medicaid.
Speaker 1:That's interesting. I've had a couple people hit me up. I was just renting out. I have a college house near Towson. It's a six bedroom just on the city side on Northern Parkway and York Road, and I had I was having trouble renting the whole thing out this year.
Speaker 1:Usually it was like frats and sororities, but those people weren't on Facebook anymore so I had issues with that. So I started renting it out per room and I'm actually making a lot more money per room now. But somebody did approach me about the Sober living thing, like they wanted to run the business out of that house and I was like, oh, I don't know, send me some financials of like what you're doing and I'll take a look at it. But they never actually followed up. But I was. That was one of the things on my list and I'm glad you guys mentioned that, because I was kind of not comfortable with it at First. I didn't really know like are these people gonna steal the copper out of the walls? Like there's a fridge gonna go missing, like what? Like what's kind of issues come with that running something like that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean there's a lot of Stereotypes on it too, especially with the neighbors that here you're gonna run a sober living house, they automatically think there's gonna be a methadone clinic and people lining up at 5 am, which is far from the case. No, a lot of these places operate, you know, there's a lot of structure in place. I mean there's the full gamut of operators out there. So there's some people that have, you know, mattresses on the floor and just packing it to the gills and and running it, you know, not properly, which you know I shy away from. And then you have others that are falling within the compliance. I mean Baltimore City, for example. There's a limit on how many you know beds you can have per house, and you know. And in Rondo County there's a hearing last week, on last month rather, on how many beds you can have per bathroom. So they're starting to as a state, you know, and counties, put some compliance around these facilities. They they see the need for it to see the good that it's doing, but they're trying to, you know, get the operators out of the business that are, you know, taking advantage of the system and just throw mattresses on the floor.
Speaker 2:On the flip side. There's people in that same State floor that testified that if it hadn't been for that mattress on the floor, they wouldn't be alive in here today. So it's you know, you have to, you know, be able to, you know, look at it from both sides. But at the same time you're given especially folks that are very vulnerable and in early recovery. Giving them a safe place to live is super important. So there there's an opportunity to give back and to do good within your business and for it to be profitable. So it's worth looking into, especially if you have somebody approaching you. But you definitely want to do your due diligence on the people and, if they have any Prior places, go and visit them and see how they're running those.
Speaker 3:Yeah, how? So, I guess, from the business standpoint of things, how much time does that individual Typically stay in that, in that bed, at that property?
Speaker 2:Yep. So for Medicaid they will prove for 90 days initially, and then there's another up for a 90 day renewal, so they can. The maximum they'll be able to stay is six months, so the average is probably like four to five months and it's not difficult finding a new person to fill that bed after their time is up.
Speaker 2:No, there's waiting lists for that. I mean there's, there's, you know, folks that are Out there that are relationshiping with hospitals and rehabs that usually a step down from a rehab center. So when somebody just finished their 28 or 30 days of treatment and they're not ready to go back home yet but they need to integrate back into society, this is an option for folks like that.
Speaker 1:So it's a business that's operating with, you know, alongside the real estate and what makes me think of I had a friend that was a Flight attendant and she lived in a crash pad they called it near the airport here and it was like a six bedroom house or five bedroom house that they put additions on and they put like literally bunk beds all throughout the house and your flight attendants come in.
Speaker 1:It's a Southwest house because it's a Southwest hub here and she pays. She paid like 250 bucks a month or 300 bucks a month or whatever, and she just came and had a bed but she also shared that bed or any bed with like you know, 10 other 15 other people and I looked into it, the guy that was renting her house. It was making like $14,000 a month on a house in linticum, like crazy, two miles from the airport, which is like an insane. I mean the house was probably worth $300,000 max and he's making like $15,000 a month and but it is like a business, like he has to stock it with like paper towels. It's like a almost like a Airbnb essentially, but you have you kind of make lemonade kind of thing when you have, you know, that opportunity.
Speaker 3:So, and if I'm getting 14,000 for one house, I'm gonna stock it with a bunch of stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right, it's. Yeah, I mean, but it's just another way, like I guess now too is a cool time to talk about Different strategies on how to make investments work. As somebody that analyzes investment properties every single day, like you mentioned before, it's much harder to find the deals that make sense, that I can sell off or keep for myself. So if you have a different strategy even if it means a little bit more work but it's making you money then you know it's time to change the strategy.
Speaker 2:Yeah and yeah, so that that's what was, you know, so exciting about this opportunity? One being a person in recovery myself, you know I could get behind it really easily. And Just having that knowledge and just wanting to do you know something more and have more of a purpose behind the work that I do, and, you know, having the experience in real estate, experience in recovery and blending those two worlds together, it was just, you know, it just went hand in hand, but it came as a result of like kind of beating a head against the wall, of like, alright, what can we do next? Like these, you know, deals are not making sense. How can we? You know where's your opportunity and you know just heard it on actually bigger pockets before. You know, a lot of people talk about sober living houses for investments and I was like you know what, I've talked about it before but haven't done anything. Let's start taking some action around it.
Speaker 1:That's cool. So what are your goals over the next year and then Next five years for you and your team, yep.
Speaker 2:So over the next year we're looking to, you know, as a goals, we kind of break it down by units and volume for our team. That's just the easiest way to quantify it, and then we just back into it from that. So a team of you know so, 150 million over 400 units. So that is our goal. For what's the average there?
Speaker 1:That's.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is like 350,000.
Speaker 3:I was gonna say 300.
Speaker 2:Okay, and you know. So, to quantify that, in order to do that, you know we have to. There's some growth that needs to happen within the team and you know that's kind of aligned within our, our structure there. You know the five-year goal is more around a freedom number. You know to, you know build up passive income and residual income to the point where not, like you know, grinding it out every day, like today. You know it's been ebbs and flows in the business, but I'm heavily involved in the business, I'm heavily involved in sales and there's just there's that grind. So you know, being number one and that used to be like this big goal. But, like you know what you sacrifice and you know, when you look at profitability and margins and stuff like that, like, is that really the goal to be number one or is it just to be highly profitable and find that sweet spot Within operating in the team? So you know we were.
Speaker 2:We were a highly profitable team with four agents selling 75 million at one point in time, 2015, making over a million dollars a year in profit. However, a lot of our exposure was built on one or two agents on the team. So you know, if one or two agents lead the team, then, you know, 50% of your business walks out the door. So we realized we couldn't be, you know, too small where we're so dependent and relying on one or two agents. But at the same time as we grow past, you know, 30 agents, you start to dilute and then it becomes, you know, people aren't getting enough leads, people aren't getting enough attention, and there's that. So there's this, in my opinion, a sweet spot between 20 and 30 agents on a team to be able to, you know, make sure that they're taking care of especially that one that's operating at a one location, in order to, you know, stay profitable and make sure everybody is hitting their goals.
Speaker 1:So for your agents on your team, are you looking at, like? I guess the question is, you definitely know this, but maybe not off the top of your head the difference between your number one selling agent and your last selling agent? Is there a huge difference in those people and what is, I guess, the average amount of units that these people are selling, and median, I guess, because average is skewed, of course.
Speaker 2:Yep, yeah. So the goal for the team is everybody sell two units a month, right, 24 units a year, and we've backed into that through those numbers I mentioned earlier. So if you're three, two, one, if you're setting three a week, attending two and getting one signed, you're getting four pieces of business signed and converting those four pieces of business into two pending deals. So those are the metrics to get to 24. I would say 19 is probably the median. You know, half the team is doing over 19 and the other half is under 19. So not everybody is completely up to standard. But at the same time it's skewed because we've brought in newer agents, especially over the past year, that are starting from zero.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's no perfect way to do that math. I was just more asking, like you mentioned being reliant on one or two agents, what are your lowest agents doing? Are they still making a living, or is this their second job Like one?
Speaker 2:a month, yeah, and there's some out there. Some of them get into the business with different financial debts and they come into the business thinking that they're gonna be able to get a magic pill or, through osmosis, hang around and that's all gonna be solved. And it's not always the case and they end up going back to a dual career. You know, this happened last week. The agent on the team said she had some debts that she wanted to pay off and take care of it by the end of this year and then she would come back full-time to the team. So she took a second job in order to be able to do that. When agents usually are coming in to the team, they have a job and we're talking to them about burning their boat and dedicating all their time and energy into real estate.
Speaker 2:And I truly believe that this business we make it a lot more complicated than it really is it all boils down to the metrics and doing the activities and making the calls, and if anybody is not hitting their numbers and I get in front of them and say, well, show me your activities, what you've done, they haven't done the activities to even get close to hitting their numbers, so they're not even giving theirself a chance to be able to be successful. They're somehow tapping out before they even get there. So tell them don't quit before the miracle happens. Go back and start at 20 contacts a day. If you're a brand new agent, make 20 contacts a day. If you're an investor, a wholesaler, make those calls. Have two-way conversations, whether it's through voice or text or email. But give yourself a chance to have 100 conversations a week before you completely make a decision to get out of the business.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I think that's a piece that's hard for a lot of new agents just to get in front of people, get used to being on the phones and I know I'm still with Kaila Williams now but back when I was involved in the office, they would have a lot of script practice like how to talk to people, how to get those leads, how to be out and about getting those deals done.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's important. I mean we still script practice. A lot of the principles that we've learned at KW we embody today within the team and I don't think they're necessarily KW principles, but KW is just very good about teaching the basics within real estate. But if you go outside of KW, there's other brokerages out there and other agents that run their business through script practice and presentation practice. We run a productivity program called Agent Athlete and we do this quarterly and it is a fun program where agents can get points for activities that they do and at the end of each quarter there's a celebration for those that achieved the amount of points necessary to graduate.
Speaker 2:So, for example, at the beginning of the year we had it a Hamilton theme and so the Hamilton the Broadway play. So we ended up doing a theme around that and we did it informational and gave tidbits about the play and how it came up and the inspiration behind that and how we can use that inspiration within our business. And then at the end for those that graduated, we took a train to New York and eight or nine of us went to go see Hamilton on Broadway, which was really cool. Last quarter we did Live Like Jay-Z for the night.
Speaker 2:I'm a huge Jay-Z fan and I love his story and his come-up, so we shared a lot of that as an inspiration, and Live Like Jay-Z for the night in Baltimore consisted of renting a limo bus, going down to the Baltimore Museum of Art where there was a hip hop exhibit going on, so some sort of education and culture went down a bygone for very fancy dinner and then to the lollipop room at the elk room for cigars, so anyway. So there's just a little bit of that like gamification within the team, to stay active to your activities, because it's easy to kind of get burnt out. But if there's a gamification going on and an opportunity to win, there's money involved, there's prizes as well, so we try to make it fun within the team.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like that I feel like a lot of my not a lot of my motivation, but I do get motivated when there is like, when it's like a game style of whatever I do really in a competition For sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, competition drives everything, so I agree with that. That's awesome man. Well, michael, we really appreciate you coming out here. Congratulations on all your success with the team and hopefully you know, we can all work together in some other capacity outside of the podcast.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm looking forward to that. I'm surprised our pass haven't crossed sooner.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know it's funny. I was saying I thought I actually did have a transaction with somebody from your team years ago, but it could be somebody else and I have no idea. So I was like thinking about the address. I can't even come to mind.
Speaker 2:But no, this was great and I'm looking forward to you know linking up after this to do some more business together.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely Thanks.
Speaker 2:See you next time guys.